We’re continuing our Q&A series with another insightful session from one of our top trainers.
In this Q&A, we sit down with Pat Horigan, our longest standing Integrated Management Systems Lead Auditor trainer, based in Melbourne. We talk to Pat about how ISO management systems provide a structured framework for organisations to align their operations with strategic goals, drive continual improvement, and ensure long-term sustainability.
RTP: Can you explain what ISO management systems are and why they are important?
Pat: Management systems provide a framework to provide systematic and consistent approach to undertaking activities associated with the relevant discipline, such as health and safety, environment or quality assurance.
RTP: How do ISO standards contribute to an organisation’s overall performance?
Pat: Put simply, management systems standards require that an organisation understands where it is now and where it wants to be in the future. They aid as a planning a pathway to achieve desired results and provide a framework for monitoring the progress towards established goals.
RTP: What are the most common misconceptions about ISO certification?
Pat: That certification of its management system will guarantee that an organisation will achieve its desired outcomes and will be a fix all for challenges and performance issues the organisation is experiencing. It should certainly help, but organisations need to proactively maintain and manage their system to make sure it stays current and manages their risks.
RTP: What are the key benefits for an organisation to become ISO certified?
Pat: If the organisation is genuinely looking for improvement in its performance, then independent third-party assessment will validate the effective implementation of the management system and fresh eyes can challenge perceptions of where the organisation is at.
Training and Tailoring ISO Knowledge: Pat’s Approach
RTP: What is the most rewarding part of being an ISO management systems trainer?
Pat: Providing participants with an understanding of what management systems are and debunking myths about what should be and shouldn’t be included in a management system to achieve conformance with requirements.
RTP: What are the most challenging aspects of training people on ISO standards?
Pat: It varies greatly on their reason for being at the course and their previous exposure to management system standards and auditing. This can range significantly for participants with little or no knowledge of what management systems and standards are, to those participants with long held beliefs in what a management system should be and how it must be implemented.
RTP: How do you stay updated with the latest developments and changes in ISO standards?
Pat: Reading, discussions with colleagues, researching the various standards and supporting services.
ISO Auditing: Insights from the Field
RTP: What are the most common issues you find during ISO audits?
Pat: Some auditees can become defensive and see the audit as a test and criticism of their approach to meeting the criteria. Also overcoming issues that have arisen with previous audits creating anxiety and apprehension amongst auditees.
Another common issue is overengineered management systems, often implemented by consultants or employees of the company with little knowledge of the standards.
RTP: How do you approach auditing an organisation with no prior ISO certification?
Pat: The stage one audit sets the scene and provides the opportunity to discuss what the audit will look at and the approach that will be taken during the audit. I use the stage one audit to open the door for the auditee to ask questions about the forthcoming audit and what to expect.
RTP: What advice would you give to an organisation preparing for its first ISO audit?
Pat: Look at what you have in place already, go in lightand expect to get some Non-Conformance Reports (NCRs). I find this a much better approach than trying to implement a system that accounts for every possibility (and auditor’s personal preferences) and becomes a system that is a burden to the business.
I always say to my consulting clients that if the process doesn’t add value to the business, then why do it. Don’t put systems or processes in place just to appease an auditor.
RTP: How do you ensure impartiality and objectivity during an audit?
Pat: I don’t audit my own clients, and I maintain a friendly but professional relationship with the auditee.
Insights from Experience
RTP: How have you seen ISO 9001 (Quality Management) benefit organisations?
Pat: Typically, the introduction of performance monitoring and evaluation is where I have seen the most benefit to organisations. Most organisations are good and meeting their business needs (working in the business) not always so good at standing back and looking at the business (working on the business).
RTP: What advice would you give to professionals looking to become ISO auditors or trainers?
Pat: Do it if you have a genuine interest in improving business performance and a belief that management systems do genuinely add value to organisations. You also need to be curious and go in with a mindset of wanting to learn about how an organisation operates.
RTP: What inspired you to pursue a career in ISO management systems?
Pat: I was asked to assist the organisation I was working for to implement a quality management system AS3901 and my involvement grew from there.
Third party auditing was just going to be a stop gap until I established myself in HR consulting.
RTP: How do you handle resistance or pushback during training or audits?
Pat: Often it is as simple as explaining why the issue needs to be addressed, showing people the requirement, and explaining what the intent of the requirement is. It is important to be part of the solution, not the problem.
RTP: What qualities do you believe are essential for someone in your field?
Pat: Being personable, having a sense of humour, being able to laugh at yourself, be humble and respectful, showing an interest in and having passion about the topics being covered, and having a sound knowledge but still willing to learn more.
RTP: What do you enjoy most about your job?
Pat: My interaction with people.
Pat’s insights reinforce that ISO certification is not just a checkbox – it’s a powerful tool that fosters organisational growth and resilience. His expertise in ISO management systems and his skill in delivering clear, engaging training make him a standout trainer amongst our students. His approach ensures that everyone walks away with a complete understanding, ready to apply ISO systems for strategic success.
Thank you to Pat for his time and participation in our Q&A series. Stay tuned for another Q&A with another of our outstanding trainers in the coming weeks.
